Richard
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Post by Richard on Dec 14, 2011 3:41:27 GMT -5
Well IDK Richard, if you take a hard look at these issues a lot of these crimes were done under both. Which technically makes you correct... However there are other crimes that don't make the history books. Cross burnings, name calling, things of that nature. But, Point taken. I will give you the point for that bit.  At least until I have some hard numbers I could use as debate material. I don't see that happening any time soon, as it would be nearly impossible to locate and record each instance where religion was the motivating / contributing factor for even the smallest of crimes, through out human history. Bluelotus, you can never come up with enough witch burnings, or other religious atrocities, to match that of those done in the name of nationalism. Korean conflict (1950–53) which has nothing to do with religion and is still not resolved. Approximately 2 million. Pol Pot in Cambodia (1975-79) with an estimated loss of life at 1.7 million. Rwanda (1994) the Hutu and Tutsi mass killing of 800,000. Bosnia and Herzegovina (1992-1995) over 100,000 fatalities, more than 1 million displaced. This is without Russia and China which adds 10's of millions. There is really no comparison or no debate on the subject. Just being informed, or ill informed. It isn't about "points", or a personal debate, the notion you presented is more of a populist notion about religion. I do not support religion, but I do like to present facts. This is a subject I addressed in my last book, so I am up to date on it. I used a number of religious based atrocities quoted from the book entitled Holy Horrors from James A Haught as representative of death in the name of religion in my book. But, that was small in comparison to those atrocities not committed in the name of God. |
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BlueLotus
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Post by BlueLotus on Dec 14, 2011 5:08:33 GMT -5
Now see here is where I was coming from. Not just the popular quote though I still feel that it does have at least some basis in truth, but with places like India where for as long as anyone can remember there are daily hundreds of deaths based solely on religious POV. Muslim vs Hindu, Jain Vs Sikh Muslim Vs Christan. Then Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, where Beheading, and other methods are employed as punishment for the slightest affront to that places religious rule. It may be that I am miss informed numbers wise, of that I will make no bones. However, I too have done research into religions. But, we used a computer and the religious texts of various sects along with statistical crime data from the last 50 some odd years and ran those through an algorithm. Now here is where we ran into a few issues where we had to guess and hope we were right. Religious crimes committed by rulers, and the general population in some countries is so under reported that there really is no way of knowing. In one country we dug up cases where if the family deemed it necessary in order to appease God, for a shortcoming real or imagined on her part, they could in fact murder their women family members and are not required to report it. Then there are pesky times like Rwanda, Israel, and Palestine where hard numbers are just not ava. In these instances we tossed the data out of the study. However if added back in the numbers are shocking. Our group came to the conclusion that if history is any indication of current behavior than Religious views even to this day (well this was about a decade ago) held to be the number one common factor, either the motivating or in tandem with others. I say this with the caveat that we did NOT take nationalism or general craziness (mental disorders) into account. Perhaps we should have. Ah yes you mention your book I am ordering my copy next week! I really can't wait to read it. As always, you never fail to make me smile, I do enjoy hearing from you! What I meant earlier was that I do not have enough current information on crimes of either, or for that matter any sort, with which to base a sound opinion. I know you do, thus I have no desire to come up against someone in a discussion unarmed. I can however, explain from my own findings, though outdated, why I would say something along the lines of my previous statement. ~BL~ |
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BlueLotus
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Post by BlueLotus on Dec 14, 2011 5:23:20 GMT -5
However, I believe the original topic was about Political Correctness and not statistical analysis of crime data.
Since religion is a topic that many people get easily offended by. If you, or anyone for that matter, would like to politely continue it via PM my box is always open. (No that is not directed at you Rich. You are always polite.)
But, I do not wish to turn what should be a rousing conversation in to a bickering board for people who have never looked past the end of their nose.
Hugs,
~BL~
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Richard
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Post by Richard on Dec 14, 2011 17:04:59 GMT -5
Ah yes you mention your book I am ordering my copy next week! I really can't wait to read it.  I wasn't trying to promote my book, honestly. I just did a chapter on this subject. The book I referred to "Holy Horrors" lists some pretty interesting statistics from different eras. Like this: “The Aztecs began their elaborate theocracy in the 1300s and brought human sacrifice to a golden era. About 20,000 people were killed yearly to appease gods -- especially the sun god, who needed daily "nourishment" of blood. Hearts of sacrifice victims were cut out, and some bodies were eaten ceremoniously. Other victims were drowned, beheaded, burned or dropped from heights. In a rite to the rain god, shrieking children were killed at several sites so that their tears might induce rain. In a rite to the maize goddess, a virgin danced for 24 hours, then was killed and skinned; her skin was worn by a priest in further dancing. One account says that at King Ahuitzotl's coronation, 80,000 prisoners were butchered to please the gods.” Being "politically correct" also involves religion and culture which I believe are about the two most divisive issues in the world because of how they are manipulated by the "powers that be." |
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BlueLotus
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Post by BlueLotus on Dec 15, 2011 0:27:59 GMT -5
Oh darlin' I know you were not promoting your book. But I finally have some room in my reading list to work it in, and it sounds like it is right up my lil alley. |
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Richard
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Post by Richard on Dec 17, 2011 1:45:24 GMT -5
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BlueLotus
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Post by BlueLotus on Dec 17, 2011 3:13:40 GMT -5
Well that is our government for ya, none of those jack wagons makes a lick of sense. I believe my grandmother said it best "Can't shoot 'em can't stand 'em either." However, the article states that this only applies to Franked mail Mail where we the tax payer foot the bill for postage. I am however confused about Happy New Year as New years is not a religious holiday.  |
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Lily
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Post by Lily on Dec 17, 2011 13:31:15 GMT -5
This is utterly incredible!  Just when you think PC can't get any crazier, it proves you wrong. It's amazing that Congress would allow themselves to be dictated to in this way. And if they don't put a stop to it, what chance do the rest of us have? |
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At least until I have some hard numbers I could use as debate material. 
I wasn't trying to promote my book, honestly.
Just when you think PC can't get any crazier, it proves you wrong. It's amazing that Congress would allow themselves to be dictated to in this way. And if they don't put a stop to it, what chance do the rest of us have?